tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2544393461869133373.post5268596956295260817..comments2024-03-27T17:33:46.836-04:00Comments on The New PI Sets Up a Lab: Is the pre-tenure job search a thing?The new PIhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10432035024665768151noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2544393461869133373.post-31288179227565723782017-05-26T18:02:21.708-04:002017-05-26T18:02:21.708-04:00I think you do all these things. By now you should...I think you do all these things. By now you should have a wide network of colleagues, so you mention to close friends you may be looking. If a position in a place you're interested in opens up and you know someone there, you ask around and have them put in a good word, or you just email the chair and show your interest. If they do not have a position open, you ask around. Sometimes just knowing you are interested, could do the trick. On the other hand it is entirely possible the job is not the right fit or it is not the right time. I think the mid-career move is more about networking than just brute force application if you are doing well. If you don't get tenure, then a good old fashioned large spectrum search may be in order...The new PIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10432035024665768151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2544393461869133373.post-65932542296470492182017-05-26T17:26:47.807-04:002017-05-26T17:26:47.807-04:00So suppose you are not being recruited by anybody ...So suppose you are not being recruited by anybody but want to move while in yrs 3-4. Do you just fill out job applications like any postdoc would? What do you do about stuff like rec letters etc, especially if you don't really want to share with anyone yet that you are looking?<br /><br />Or do you email search chairs, dept chairs, and deans directly and ask for a look through your CV?<br /><br />Or is there another standard route? Seems like all the cases I know of are somebody being specifically recruited by a collaborator/close colleague. But waiting around for for that of you are interested in possibly moving seems terribly inefficient.Grumpyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06238708584935877026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2544393461869133373.post-4154881663231694432017-05-25T04:02:26.685-04:002017-05-25T04:02:26.685-04:00I cannot imagine finding the energy and time to pu...I cannot imagine finding the energy and time to put in serious job applications for other positions before tenure. It's hard enough managing all that goes in and around a young lab. I guess what I am trying to say is: unless I would have a hunch that tenure might be denied, I would never put in the effort to apply/explore other options simply to have leverage (call me old fashioned). Also, I would think (call me naive) that applying elsewhere while having tenure would send more of a sign of wanting to consider other options (rather than having). But little do I know: I've not encountered any of this in my own university via friends or colleagues and at my former place the people who did not get tenure were so shocked and amazed that they never even considered another option until their fate had been sealed.BioBrainshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10317577197056197225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2544393461869133373.post-9076456474452497612017-05-23T17:41:01.484-04:002017-05-23T17:41:01.484-04:00I think this is really the key for moving having t...I think this is really the key for moving having the right contacts...or developing them in advance for the right move. But after all money makes the world go round.The new PIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10432035024665768151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2544393461869133373.post-12223890913401356302017-05-23T17:38:29.141-04:002017-05-23T17:38:29.141-04:00I know. I was trying to outline some of those opti...I know. I was trying to outline some of those options in this post, but it's hard to do without giving away specifics. I'm weary of recounting other people's stories without their approval. I will have to ask for permission to share. I don't have anything is mine to share, just watching at the moment...The new PIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10432035024665768151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2544393461869133373.post-67145620448549007342017-05-23T13:37:54.047-04:002017-05-23T13:37:54.047-04:00Hmm interesting. Would be great if you could at so...Hmm interesting. Would be great if you could at some point put up a post about your experiences/observations on this, whether direct or indirect. Whenever the timing is appropriate for you to do so, of course. It would be very helpful to those of us who are in that position right now or might be in that position a few years down the line.Luminiferous Aethernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2544393461869133373.post-34372141337685766512017-05-23T09:26:03.122-04:002017-05-23T09:26:03.122-04:00I've moved twice pre-tenure. I started out at ...I've moved twice pre-tenure. I started out at a 2nd tier large state university, but knew from the get-go that I wouldn't be staying long. Bad location (geographically), bad dept politics, and poor support for research. But it was the best offer I received as a postdoc (bad year for academic hiring overall). 2 years later in I ran into a colleague at a conference who basically just asked if I was happy where I was. 6 months later my lab moved to an academic research institute out west and spent about 5 years there. Did well, got grants, pubs, etc., but was really missing the university setting. Recently hired back into a traditional department with promotion, but had to wait a year for tenure since I wasn't technically tenured yet. Definitely an unorthodox path that cost me some time relative to my peers, but worked out in the end. In these types of cases personal contacts are key. No way I would've been able to move twice as just another application in the 'pile'. Plus, if you're moving large grants with you it changes everything. Amazing how money cuts through a lot of the bs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2544393461869133373.post-43976659680862540262017-05-22T11:58:08.082-04:002017-05-22T11:58:08.082-04:00One of the reasons why I brought this up is that I...One of the reasons why I brought this up is that I have many friends moving right now or trying to move and I've been kind of shocked by this whole process. The options they are getting for one reason or another are beyond what I thought was possible, so I'm wondering...The new PIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10432035024665768151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2544393461869133373.post-33183627941662413952017-05-22T11:51:20.233-04:002017-05-22T11:51:20.233-04:00I agree. I don't think it should be done "...I agree. I don't think it should be done "just for leverage". If you are happy and supported there is no need to this, but in many cases there may be some interest in seeing what's out there. Or you're beeing recruited somewhere else and you want to take a look. Every university or department is going to be different in its response to this because it will depend on the personalities involved and the culture. That's the tricky part...The new PIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10432035024665768151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2544393461869133373.post-46173667433840588252017-05-22T10:12:19.207-04:002017-05-22T10:12:19.207-04:00I'm new to the PI world, so I don't have a...I'm new to the PI world, so I don't have any first-hand experience on this, but almost every example that I have seen moved after tenure to cushy Endowed Chair positions (of course, these folks were pretty well-funded to begin with) or moved from research track to TT after getting their first R01.<br /><br />If I were to make such a move, I would want to be armed with some leverage (such as NIH funding) and be ready to move if I had to. Personally, I feel that if people are happy in their current department/institution but are playing this game to get a good retention package, it is a risky move and they should be mentally prepared to actually move. That said, as a regular reader of your blog, I know that your motivations are different.Luminiferous Aethernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2544393461869133373.post-23961218090841488682017-05-22T07:46:13.656-04:002017-05-22T07:46:13.656-04:00Great post, thanks. My gut feeling is that one sho...Great post, thanks. My gut feeling is that one should always consider that the host institution may not be pleased with this approach. Using other offers as leverage is great, but I would only use it if moving is really a serious option. Using an offer 'just' as leverage can easily result in being forced to take a position that one doesn't want.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17647622761737361655noreply@blogger.com